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#999 Here We Go – Tobin trots out the Natural Order arguments against Marriage Equality June 4, 2008

Posted by truthspew in politics, religion.
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The anti marriage-equality crowd seems to be dominating the Providence Journal’s “Letters to the Editor” section.

The latest is from Roman Catholic Bishop of the Diocese of Providence Thomas J. Tobin:

People of good will can simply disagree

01:00 AM EDT on Wednesday, June 4, 2008

I suspect that M. Charles Bakst prides himself on encouraging the open and honest exchange of ideas and opinions. For that reason, his current rant about “gay marriage” is confusing and troubling (“Gay equality: State house and beyond,” May 15).

Most offensive in his column is the assertion that proposed “same-sex marriage” legislation will die because of “lawmaker indifference, or cowardice, or prejudice.” Now I have to wonder if Mr. Bakst would describe the rest of us who oppose “same-sex marriage” in the same derogatory way. Does he believe that all of us are motivated by “indifference, or cowardice, or prejudice”?

Isn’t it possible that lawmakers and many other thoughtful and respected citizens of Rhode Island oppose “same-sex marriage” because of our sincere convictions that: homosexual activity is immoral and shouldn’t be ratified by the state; our state shouldn’t get caught up in the latest wave of social experimentation to the detriment of the institution of marriage and family; the state shouldn’t tinker with its longstanding and well-founded marriage laws to meet the ideologically driven agenda of gay activists; the natural law that results in male-female relationships should be respected and promoted in our culture?

Shouldn’t those of us who oppose “gay marriage” be able to express our beliefs and actively lobby for them without being saddled with the inflammatory language used by Mr. Bakst?

Come on, Charlie, you should know better. In writing about “same-sex marriage” in the future, I hope you’ll check your own prejudices at the door.

THOMAS J. TOBIN

Providence

The next to last paragraph is the one that irritates me the most.

Shouldn’t those of us who oppose “gay marriage” be able to express our beliefs and actively lobby for them without being saddled with the inflammatory language used by Mr. Bakst?

Yes Mr. Tobin, I do believe you and your flock should shut their traps. If you want to play in the civil sector you should have to pay. Your beliefs are colored by the desire to bolster your failing membership in your antiquated church. You think that by beating the drum against marriage equality and more importantly gay rights, you’ll drive members into the flock.

It isn’t going to happen. I’m so happy to see that people are finally realizing how the religious hierarchy works, if there’s no flock there’s no tithe, and if there is no tithe, there’s no support for the clerical class of the church, not just that the hierarchy of the church.

Tobin seems to focus solely on a few select passages in the bible (You can view all 32 selections on homosexuality from the Bible here.)

He’s guilty of the sin of omission. I know that he speaks out of one side of his mouth when he says the typical “love the sinner, hate the sin.”. You cannot separate the two things under Catholic dogma.

Most offensive in his column is the assertion that proposed “same-sex marriage” legislation will die because of “lawmaker indifference, or cowardice, or prejudice.” Now I have to wonder if Mr. Bakst would describe the rest of us who oppose “same-sex marriage” in the same derogatory way. Does he believe that all of us are motivated by “indifference, or cowardice, or prejudice”?

Of course Tobin is upset because he knows that for the past couple of years we’ve had ample support on the Judicial committee and he knows that Speaker Murphy won’t be there forever which explains the drum beating on the part of Tobin.

Charlie Bakst danced around it a bit, it’s prejudice. Tobin of course thinks you cannot have morality without religion, but some of us have figured out that a moral code can develop independently of religion. And yes, I describe “the rest of you” in the same derogatory way, you’re bigots. Plain and simple Bishop Tobin, shut the fuck up already.

Our next letter is another anti-gay screed:

Robert J. Barry: Man-woman marriage the foundation of society

01:00 AM EDT on Tuesday, June 3, 2008

The May 26 Commentary piece “Children need mothers and fathers” by Dr. Daniel Harrop should pretty well put to rest the whole debate about same-sex marriage.

Civil societies realized over 2,000 years ago the need for the marriage ceremony to maintain the social unit of the family. This unit consists of a man, a woman, and their offspring, and is the foundation of any civilization.

If one were to set aside religion and the moral laws, one would still be faced with the natural law. These are the laws existing in and produced by nature. One of the basic tenets of nature is for a species to continue existing, it must reproduce. This of course is not possible with same-sex couples and undermines the primary purpose of marriage. Nature also dictates the need for the male and female to be present in the nurturing of the offspring.

One of the great joys of parenthood is to see one’s children greet each day with an entrance that would shame kings, presidents and great ladies of the stage. “Ready or not, world, here I am!” seems to be their opening line. Their burst of innocent ardor cannot be matched, even by the sunrise.

If one of God’s littlest beings can find joy in the coming of a new day, how much greater should be our rejoicing at the coming of a new life. Moreover, this happiness is extended when we have been the fortunate instruments as parents in causing this life to be.

A man is not a complete human being until he has become a father, a woman until she has become a mother. A child cannot be a complete adult unless he or she has both a mother and father.

ROBERT J. BARRY

Warren

Mr. Barry seems to conveniently leave out the fact that some marriages don’t necessarily produce offspring. In fact more and more, people are refusing to marry. I have a friend of mine who had a fairly amicable divorce who swears he’ll never marry again. He’s already got three kids, doesn’t want any more and he’s living the good life now. Why change that?

Then of course there are the barren, the elderly, et al. who aren’t in the positions to plop out a little bundle of joy.

But my favorite is Barry’s assertion that:

A man is not a complete human being until he has become a father, a woman until she has become a mother. A child cannot be a complete adult unless he or she has both a mother and father.

Let me explain something to Mr. Barry, I am a man and a complete human being but have no children. I understand the sacrifice involved in having children and it is a sacrifice I am unwilling to make. But it makes me no less human.

Barry once again tries to de-humanize gay people. When is this going to stop? I suppose it’ll stop when all the people in their 60’s finally die off. But the Providence Journal does love to put up the letters of the homophobes. I suppose someone in their editorial department knows that someone will take it and run with it, like I have here.

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